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Old, New Testaments attacked homosexuality
In his Dec. 11 letter, the Rev. Dr. Bunnell stated “The Christian Testament speaks of homosexuality only obliquely. If at all.” I find this statement to be somewhat disingenuous, as both the Old and New Testaments make very strong condemnations of homosexual behavior.
The law given to the Israelites by Moses includes the prohibition of one man “lying with another man as with a woman.” The behavior is called “detestable” and is punishable by death. Nor is any man or woman to engage in sexual activity with animals, which also invokes the death penalty (Exodus chapters 18 and 20).
In the book of Romans, the apostle Paul makes a major theological argument about the ways that men have denied God. One of his examples of man’s depravity is that men are seeking men and women are seeking women in ways that are called “unnatural” and “perversion” (Romans 1:24-27).
These are not “oblique” references at all, rather, they are insights into the high value that God places on the relationship He established and ordained between a man and a woman. Furthermore, there are serious consequences to the individuals involved and implications that any nation that condones such behavior will also suffer.
While Christians recognize that the United States is not a theocracy and scripture is not the rule of the land, we still consider that this country has experienced immeasurable blessings from God that are in jeopardy by changing moral values.
Thomas Graham
Klamath Falls
The law given to the Israelites by Moses includes the prohibition of one man “lying with another man as with a woman.” The behavior is called “detestable” and is punishable by death. Nor is any man or woman to engage in sexual activity with animals, which also invokes the death penalty (Exodus chapters 18 and 20).
In the book of Romans, the apostle Paul makes a major theological argument about the ways that men have denied God. One of his examples of man’s depravity is that men are seeking men and women are seeking women in ways that are called “unnatural” and “perversion” (Romans 1:24-27).
These are not “oblique” references at all, rather, they are insights into the high value that God places on the relationship He established and ordained between a man and a woman. Furthermore, there are serious consequences to the individuals involved and implications that any nation that condones such behavior will also suffer.
While Christians recognize that the United States is not a theocracy and scripture is not the rule of the land, we still consider that this country has experienced immeasurable blessings from God that are in jeopardy by changing moral values.
Thomas Graham
Klamath Falls
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Reader Comments
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MA wrote on Jan 8, 2009 2:35 PM:
" Certain things may be a sin according to your view of God and your religious tenets, LKyle, but what about the other religions in the world? There are 3 major religions with at least 1 billion followers - Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism (of which Buddhism may or may not be considered an offshoot). What about the Jewish tradition of not shaving the corners of your beard? Look it up! That "law" is in the bible in Leviticus! So, am I to assume you have long curls on each side of your head, LKyle? Or do you, like most of the brand of hypocritical christians, pick and choose which of God's laws you follow? Give me a non-judgemental, forgiving christian or catholic or jew who volunteers at a soup kitchen over a fat hypocrite who blasts his community from his armchair. Kirk O, your quiz list hits the mark, for anyone with a brain. "
Steve wrote on Jan 8, 2009 12:14 PM:
" LKyle
Finally somebody taking about Christ. Please write where Christ said anything about homosexuality.
Please give the source, please back up your lie.. "
Finally somebody taking about Christ. Please write where Christ said anything about homosexuality.
Please give the source, please back up your lie.. "
LKyle wrote on Jan 7, 2009 4:07 PM:
" To Please:
I didn't write the Bible. If you are speeding and get pulled over do you tell the police officer "Stop judging me!" No you don't because you broke the law. God created moral law, not me. I'm not judging anyone for the sin they commit, I'm simply calling sin for what it is...sin. And yes, I do think that people will choose to live a lifestyle even though they are ostracized by society. Look at Christians in China, Iran, and N. Korea. They are not just ostracized, but killed for what they believe in, so yes I can see people willing to be black listed by society for their choices.
God did not create Adam and Steve, he created Adam and Eve for a reason. If you are Christian, then I would encourage you to take a hard look at what Christ said about sexual deviation...He said go and sin NO MORE. "
I didn't write the Bible. If you are speeding and get pulled over do you tell the police officer "Stop judging me!" No you don't because you broke the law. God created moral law, not me. I'm not judging anyone for the sin they commit, I'm simply calling sin for what it is...sin. And yes, I do think that people will choose to live a lifestyle even though they are ostracized by society. Look at Christians in China, Iran, and N. Korea. They are not just ostracized, but killed for what they believe in, so yes I can see people willing to be black listed by society for their choices.
God did not create Adam and Steve, he created Adam and Eve for a reason. If you are Christian, then I would encourage you to take a hard look at what Christ said about sexual deviation...He said go and sin NO MORE. "
Decay wrote on Jan 7, 2009 2:32 PM:
" Q: If they are your moral values why did you have to be taught them?
A: Because it's easier to close your eyes and let other people make your decisions we have a long history of hating the people our relatives hate out of sheer ignorance. "
A: Because it's easier to close your eyes and let other people make your decisions we have a long history of hating the people our relatives hate out of sheer ignorance. "
Please wrote on Jan 7, 2009 1:00 PM:
" Kyle
You know about homosexual tendencies because your a scientist? This behavior is exhibited throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans.
Humans are just the only ones that think they get to sit in judgement. Try speaking out like this to the people born with visible differences there is not much difference from what you are doing now, accept for that you would be hammered by society not deemed(standing up for the moral majority). You think you know the facts do you honestly think that people are born wanting to be condemned by their peers and cast out from their families, really think about that one for a moment would ten percent of society choose to be despised/feared/ ridiculed and forced into emotional isolation.
The only choice they are givin is to be honest about who they are or pressured into living a lie. Show some compassion and at least try and understand thier situation before wacking them with your Bible. And bless us true christians who do just that as we know we are not to sit in judgement it all is gods will and some day it will all be made clear. "
You know about homosexual tendencies because your a scientist? This behavior is exhibited throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans.
Humans are just the only ones that think they get to sit in judgement. Try speaking out like this to the people born with visible differences there is not much difference from what you are doing now, accept for that you would be hammered by society not deemed(standing up for the moral majority). You think you know the facts do you honestly think that people are born wanting to be condemned by their peers and cast out from their families, really think about that one for a moment would ten percent of society choose to be despised/feared/ ridiculed and forced into emotional isolation.
The only choice they are givin is to be honest about who they are or pressured into living a lie. Show some compassion and at least try and understand thier situation before wacking them with your Bible. And bless us true christians who do just that as we know we are not to sit in judgement it all is gods will and some day it will all be made clear. "
Dawn wrote on Jan 7, 2009 12:42 PM:
" Ha! Yesterday JANuary 6 was the EPIPHANY.
The ones who say FAIRYTALES will be the last ones to look the word up in a DICTIONARY.
" ...A celebration from most Christian churches on January 6, yearly.
HMMM I wonder if the manifestation of an APPEARANCE in Klamath Falls, Oregon would be noticed much less celebrated.
I sure enjoyed it. THANK_YOU. "
The ones who say FAIRYTALES will be the last ones to look the word up in a DICTIONARY.
" ...A celebration from most Christian churches on January 6, yearly.
HMMM I wonder if the manifestation of an APPEARANCE in Klamath Falls, Oregon would be noticed much less celebrated.
I sure enjoyed it. THANK_YOU. "
stop the moral decay today wrote on Jan 7, 2009 12:33 PM:
" I say right on! to Thomas Graham, Brad, and LKyle! I am annoyed that people seem to equate being gay with being a minority. People don't get to choose the color of their skin, but you do get to choose your lifestyle. I can just hear all of you gearing up with your 'scientific" proof claiming a gene in your dna chooses, but spare me! what a load of kitty litter! I am also very sick of being called judgemental by hypocrites who are judgemental themselves! Just because my view differs from yours and I want to call a sin a sin does not mean that I feel I am perfect or blameless or self-righteous. What it does mean is that I have been raised to believe a certain way and try to live by my morals and values that I have been taught. I refuse to feel bad for being sensible. "
LKyle wrote on Jan 7, 2009 11:41 AM:
" I for one say bravo to Thomas Graham for setting the record straight. Larry Bunnell twisted the Bible to make it fit his own agenda, but Thomas Graham put the Bible back into context and showed Bunnell the error of his thinking.
But while we are on the subject... What makes this whole argument so frustrating is that if I don't agree with somebody's lifestyle then suddenly I'm being judgemental. Do you know what offends me? Offended people offend me. What about the homosexuals judging me for being a Christian?
There has to be a right and wrong somewhere. We have to draw the line. You can believe as Kirk O does and say that sin is just a made up to manipulate people, but if you follow that line of thinking then there is no right or wrong. According to that line of thinking what ever suits me is just fine. Moral law has to come from some where.
We are made to believe that homosexuals are born that way, but you know what, they aren't, it's a lifestyle choice. There I said it *gasp*, people are not born gay no more than people are born republican or democrat or smokers. I would venture to say that the same people that would have you believe that people are born gay believe in evolution. Oh wait that doesn't work either people because evolution would have weeded out the "gay" gene long ago, because being homosexual doesn't benefit the species.
This whole argument is justification so people can feel better about living in their lifestyle.
Again, bravo to Thomas Graham. "
But while we are on the subject... What makes this whole argument so frustrating is that if I don't agree with somebody's lifestyle then suddenly I'm being judgemental. Do you know what offends me? Offended people offend me. What about the homosexuals judging me for being a Christian?
There has to be a right and wrong somewhere. We have to draw the line. You can believe as Kirk O does and say that sin is just a made up to manipulate people, but if you follow that line of thinking then there is no right or wrong. According to that line of thinking what ever suits me is just fine. Moral law has to come from some where.
We are made to believe that homosexuals are born that way, but you know what, they aren't, it's a lifestyle choice. There I said it *gasp*, people are not born gay no more than people are born republican or democrat or smokers. I would venture to say that the same people that would have you believe that people are born gay believe in evolution. Oh wait that doesn't work either people because evolution would have weeded out the "gay" gene long ago, because being homosexual doesn't benefit the species.
This whole argument is justification so people can feel better about living in their lifestyle.
Again, bravo to Thomas Graham. "
Actually... wrote on Jan 6, 2009 5:06 PM:
" To Bob,
In "In God we Trust" wasn't actually added to money until 1955 as an anti-communist measure.
The problem I have with this whole debate is the similarity between the rhetoric of those who oppose gay marriage and those who opposed interracial marriage. In both cases quotes from the Bible were used to justify discrimination. In both cases opponents predicted the fall of society and the slippery slope to polygamy and other "unholy" unions if the oppressed group was allowed to marry. Luckily, the Supreme Court correctly interpreted the constitution and got rid of anti-miscgentation legislation. "
In "In God we Trust" wasn't actually added to money until 1955 as an anti-communist measure.
The problem I have with this whole debate is the similarity between the rhetoric of those who oppose gay marriage and those who opposed interracial marriage. In both cases quotes from the Bible were used to justify discrimination. In both cases opponents predicted the fall of society and the slippery slope to polygamy and other "unholy" unions if the oppressed group was allowed to marry. Luckily, the Supreme Court correctly interpreted the constitution and got rid of anti-miscgentation legislation. "
Cecil wrote on Jan 4, 2009 5:28 PM:
" Sorry Fnord, I forgot to add you to the "all knowing". I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. And all this time I thought gay meant you were happy, but fnord, you blew that theory. "
Kirk O. wrote on Jan 4, 2009 3:36 AM:
" P.S.
I am a POPE in the Church of BOB.
But then, so are you. 8-) "
I am a POPE in the Church of BOB.
But then, so are you. 8-) "
Kirk O. wrote on Jan 4, 2009 3:35 AM:
" Oh, and just for the record there, Cecil ... I am neither black, a woman or Palestinian, nor am I Iraqi, pregnant or suffering from aids.
What I am is concerned about any and all peoples who find themselves victimized by the self righteous.
Look to the front lines, always, and you will find me like a slice of cheese, placed firmly between the toppings... and the cracker. Amen.. "
What I am is concerned about any and all peoples who find themselves victimized by the self righteous.
Look to the front lines, always, and you will find me like a slice of cheese, placed firmly between the toppings... and the cracker. Amen.. "
fnord wrote on Jan 3, 2009 7:16 PM:
" Cecil, gay is totally politically correct. They even made it easy for people like you to spell so you don't have to struggle with multi-syllable words with mysterious end-of-alphabet letters in it. "
Cecil wrote on Jan 3, 2009 5:27 PM:
" Wow, didn't realize there were so many gay's in Klamath. I hope the term "gay" is politically correct, if not, I'm sure I will be corrected by the all knowing Kirk O, Terry and Lacriox. "
fnord wrote on Jan 3, 2009 2:41 PM:
" Terry, you wouldn't know philosophical or intellectual anything if it jumped up behind you and stole your bible. Spare us your own pseudo-intellectualism, please. "
Terry wrote on Jan 3, 2009 8:47 AM:
" Kirk O....Please spare us your intelectual, philisopical all knowing diatribe.
Hopefully, one of these days, your mind and heart will be opened. You shall then know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. "
Hopefully, one of these days, your mind and heart will be opened. You shall then know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. "
Kirk O. wrote on Jan 2, 2009 1:28 PM:
" Okay, I wasn't going to add more to this thread but here I go again. LOL
I'll try to make this quick Sin, the concept of sin, the mechanics of sin is a man made artifice designed in its entirety to control and manipulate. It is the artificial debt placed on you so that it can be bartered back by a controlling agent. Sin is in your mind and you sell yourself to cast off this artificial shadow.
Right and wrong, however, are not difficult to define or delineate. That is an easier yardstick by which to live. (Please don't hit me with any situational ethics scenarios. I am well schooled there.)
As to the great and mighty OZ, I mean the God of the Old and New Testament, let me say that if you believe in this being and it works for you, I am happy for you. TRUTH has nothing to do with belief and neither does proof. That's why it is belief. We call that other thing, involving proof and truth - science.
For the record, if the examples I see of "human kindness" in some areas of this world are examples of the works of any such God, then I stand firm and accuse them one and all of being Absentee Slumlords deserving of nothing but contempt.
What we need to do, as a race of peoples... is to get off our knees and stand up for what is right in the world. I suggest we start by reigning in the massacre in Gaza and let the ripples flow out from there.
Far too frequently, religion stops a thinking mind and is used as a cocoon to insulate us from that bad old world out there. Those chickens, however, are coming home to roost and it won't be pretty.
I yield the floor... "
I'll try to make this quick Sin, the concept of sin, the mechanics of sin is a man made artifice designed in its entirety to control and manipulate. It is the artificial debt placed on you so that it can be bartered back by a controlling agent. Sin is in your mind and you sell yourself to cast off this artificial shadow.
Right and wrong, however, are not difficult to define or delineate. That is an easier yardstick by which to live. (Please don't hit me with any situational ethics scenarios. I am well schooled there.)
As to the great and mighty OZ, I mean the God of the Old and New Testament, let me say that if you believe in this being and it works for you, I am happy for you. TRUTH has nothing to do with belief and neither does proof. That's why it is belief. We call that other thing, involving proof and truth - science.
For the record, if the examples I see of "human kindness" in some areas of this world are examples of the works of any such God, then I stand firm and accuse them one and all of being Absentee Slumlords deserving of nothing but contempt.
What we need to do, as a race of peoples... is to get off our knees and stand up for what is right in the world. I suggest we start by reigning in the massacre in Gaza and let the ripples flow out from there.
Far too frequently, religion stops a thinking mind and is used as a cocoon to insulate us from that bad old world out there. Those chickens, however, are coming home to roost and it won't be pretty.
I yield the floor... "
fnord wrote on Jan 2, 2009 11:28 AM:
" It often seems to me the most important little piece of Christian teaching- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you- is patently ignored by so many people who call themselves Christian. Not all, but so many. Amazingly, this isn't strictly a Christian teaching, but can be found in the precepts of every single religion on earth. Every one of them.
So before you open your mouth to put your foot in it, take a nanosecond to consider if you would like to be treated like the person you are about to rip into for being different than you. Consider, if but for a moment, if you would like someone to tell ~you~ that you are perverse, evil, immoral, etc. And then consider your own reaction in such a case.
For those of you who like the taste of your own feet, carry on with the usual behavior. "
So before you open your mouth to put your foot in it, take a nanosecond to consider if you would like to be treated like the person you are about to rip into for being different than you. Consider, if but for a moment, if you would like someone to tell ~you~ that you are perverse, evil, immoral, etc. And then consider your own reaction in such a case.
For those of you who like the taste of your own feet, carry on with the usual behavior. "
Angel wrote on Jan 2, 2009 11:11 AM:
" I beleive in God my own way, I don't have to go to church or be of one beliefe to woreship him, I love God as he loves me for what ever decisions or sins I make in my life, No one is perfect and he knows this. We see many miracles in our lifes and it is never to one person who beleives in him more. No matter what we do or say he judges us all the same. Love is love no matter the sex. Leave it alone let them be who they want to be.... "
rob wrote on Jan 2, 2009 8:24 AM:
" L - What was the purpose of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - esp. the 1st Amendment?
Kirk - I disgree. It is not the intensity of the belief, but whether it is true or not. What if I'm fulfilled lying, cheating, stealing and committing rape? Please don't judge me or force your beliefs on me. You live the way you want and I'll live the way I want and we''ll both die anyway. We both end up in the same place, dead, but fulfilled.
Human rights come from God or they don't. Either God is God or man is god. If from God they can't be changed and are absolute. If from man they will change and are not absolute. "
Kirk - I disgree. It is not the intensity of the belief, but whether it is true or not. What if I'm fulfilled lying, cheating, stealing and committing rape? Please don't judge me or force your beliefs on me. You live the way you want and I'll live the way I want and we''ll both die anyway. We both end up in the same place, dead, but fulfilled.
Human rights come from God or they don't. Either God is God or man is god. If from God they can't be changed and are absolute. If from man they will change and are not absolute. "
Believe wrote on Jan 2, 2009 7:28 AM:
" I can't believe that in today's educated society we are even having this discussion. Let people live their lives and mind your own darned business, I am sure that in each of our lives there are more positive things we can be working on than trying to make people conform to our own morale compass.
Face the fact some people do not believe in your god but they don't write that they think christians are a bunch of lemmings taught to conform under the fear of burning in hell for all eternity do you? oops.... "
Face the fact some people do not believe in your god but they don't write that they think christians are a bunch of lemmings taught to conform under the fear of burning in hell for all eternity do you? oops.... "
Brad wrote on Jan 2, 2009 7:13 AM:
" In response to Kirk's " I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of Thomas, Brad, Rob, Nellie or any of the others espousing ‘Christian Morality’. I suspect that you believe that you possess the answer to a difficult set of social questions."
I don't believe that I said anything about Christian Morality - instead I imparted my beliefs about God, his nature and his enduring love for each one of us (his creation). If saying that I believe in God and that being in relationship with him means I have espoused 'Christian Morality,' then so be it.
However, the point of my comment was that everyone sins, everyone has the opportunity to be forgiven and welcomed into God's family. The only thing keeping someone from being a Christian is their free will.
Are Christians better than others? Are they completely free of sin? Of course not, they are exactly like everybody else - with one exception: they know the Christ, have accepted him as their personal savior and they study the bible to learn more about God, his word and his plan(s).
Christians are inherently contrite as they confess that they have made a mess of their own lives and they seek a better life. They invite God to be the center of their lives and allow him to begin the work of recreating them into a new creation reflecting his glory.
My comment was not so much a comment on the topic, but a recognition that some have tried to make the Christian cold, heartless and judgemental. A Christian should be in the image of God, a loving caring individual serving his purpose.
In this case, I invite everyone that reads this to enter into relationship with God, encourage them to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior and see what he can do with their lives.
By simply inviting God into your life, you enter a new chapter. After that you belong to the family of God and nothing you can do can separate you from the love of God.
God loves all and wants to know you in a deep and personal way. The God of the Universe, the creator of all things wants to know you and wants to share with you his purpose for your life. Have the courage to say yes and accept him into your life.
May God shine a light upon you and keep you now and forever more. "
I don't believe that I said anything about Christian Morality - instead I imparted my beliefs about God, his nature and his enduring love for each one of us (his creation). If saying that I believe in God and that being in relationship with him means I have espoused 'Christian Morality,' then so be it.
However, the point of my comment was that everyone sins, everyone has the opportunity to be forgiven and welcomed into God's family. The only thing keeping someone from being a Christian is their free will.
Are Christians better than others? Are they completely free of sin? Of course not, they are exactly like everybody else - with one exception: they know the Christ, have accepted him as their personal savior and they study the bible to learn more about God, his word and his plan(s).
Christians are inherently contrite as they confess that they have made a mess of their own lives and they seek a better life. They invite God to be the center of their lives and allow him to begin the work of recreating them into a new creation reflecting his glory.
My comment was not so much a comment on the topic, but a recognition that some have tried to make the Christian cold, heartless and judgemental. A Christian should be in the image of God, a loving caring individual serving his purpose.
In this case, I invite everyone that reads this to enter into relationship with God, encourage them to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior and see what he can do with their lives.
By simply inviting God into your life, you enter a new chapter. After that you belong to the family of God and nothing you can do can separate you from the love of God.
God loves all and wants to know you in a deep and personal way. The God of the Universe, the creator of all things wants to know you and wants to share with you his purpose for your life. Have the courage to say yes and accept him into your life.
May God shine a light upon you and keep you now and forever more. "
Kirk wrote on Jan 1, 2009 10:33 PM:
" I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of Thomas, Brad, Rob, Nellie or any of the others espousing ‘Christian Morality’. I suspect that you believe that you possess the answer to a difficult set of social questions. I would never seek to deprive you of that cushion of comfort. Lord knows that in these troubled times we can all use more cushion.
I would ask you, for just a moment, to consider an alternative to being judgmental and enforcing your chosen behavior upon others. Allow each person to find his or her own path while you steadfastly stick to your own personal guidelines. The conflicts, the real disharmony only starts when we attempt to dictate how others should live, love and seek fulfillment. Even if I could, by force or reason, I would not take your life choices away.
Though you have not asked, I shall tell you what I believe, to the depth of my being. I believe that whatever you believe, if it brings you joy, personal peace and allows you to be fulfilled, is the correct belief. It only loses its magic when it is imposed upon others who hold a belief of equal personal power and are legislatively or forcibly encumbered with YOUR belief system. I believe in the power of belief, and I hold that entirely separate from the validity of the object of that belief.
It Is Not What You Believe, But That You Believe. It Is Not What You Do, But Who You Do It To. "
I would ask you, for just a moment, to consider an alternative to being judgmental and enforcing your chosen behavior upon others. Allow each person to find his or her own path while you steadfastly stick to your own personal guidelines. The conflicts, the real disharmony only starts when we attempt to dictate how others should live, love and seek fulfillment. Even if I could, by force or reason, I would not take your life choices away.
Though you have not asked, I shall tell you what I believe, to the depth of my being. I believe that whatever you believe, if it brings you joy, personal peace and allows you to be fulfilled, is the correct belief. It only loses its magic when it is imposed upon others who hold a belief of equal personal power and are legislatively or forcibly encumbered with YOUR belief system. I believe in the power of belief, and I hold that entirely separate from the validity of the object of that belief.
It Is Not What You Believe, But That You Believe. It Is Not What You Do, But Who You Do It To. "
Lacr0ix wrote on Jan 1, 2009 10:15 AM:
" Rob - Read the Annals of Congress (precursor to Congressional Record) - Particularly instructive around September the of First Congress. The state-out-of-religion argument preceded (one only supposes because it was more important) the choice for seat of government. And GW himself eschewed declaring "day of thanks AND PRAYER" - opting instead for "day of Thanksgiving" - wherefrom the holiday came. The back-story must be read - in the words of the first congress themselves - to appreciate the argument - and the specific verbiage used and the form of the holiday.
You open the door for government control of religious activities, and the question is when, not if, blood will spill to reclaim religious freedom. History has proven this, repeatedly. "
You open the door for government control of religious activities, and the question is when, not if, blood will spill to reclaim religious freedom. History has proven this, repeatedly. "
Brad wrote on Jan 1, 2009 8:57 AM:
" Sin is sin. Sin separates us from God. Except for the sin of denying or blaspheming the Father, sins are the same - they keep us separated from our loving father and he has to turn his face away from his.
God so loves the world and so much wants to be a part of our lives, he wants each of us to acknowledge him, accept him and receive the bounty he has in store for us. He wants to greet us as his children, heirs to the kingdom with all the rights and responsibilities as sons and daughters of the almighty God.
God doesn't want to persecute anyone, he only wants us to have the peace, joy and freedom from bondage - he wants to give us the gift of salvation and eternal life.
As a Christian, I am reminded that we all are sinners, we have all fallen short of his glory and we are redeemed not by our own deeds, but only by his grace and mercy.
Homosexuality is a sin - no better or worse than other sins. It takes you out of the proper relationship with God and calls for you (like any sinner involved in any sin) to repent, name/confess your sin to God, ask for his forgiveness and ask him to grant you the both the strength and wisdom not to sin again.
God loves all his children, that's why he sent Jesus into the world to save sinners.
I think individuals that are involved in the sin of homosexuality want to draw a line between Christians and homosexuals - that Christians are better than homosexuals. That's not the case - the only difference is that a Christian is in relationship with God, repents, seeks forgiveness of sin and strives not to sin again. If and when he sins again, he again seeks the Father - in whom our strength is found.
God's love is sufficient. May all sinners, myself included, feel God's love and understanding. Jesus came to the world and knows it's temptations, understands the sins of the flesh (although he remained without sin) and Jesus acts on our behalf.
Don't be fooled. God loves you and wants to forgive you. All you need to do is believe in him, confess that you have gone your own way and done your own things (sinned) and ask that the holy spirit come into your life. If you do this, you will be set free from the bondage of sin and you will receive the gift of the holy spirit and eternal life (regardless of the nature of the sin or sins committed).
Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins, your past and future. He is the propitiation of our sin (the perfect and ultimate sacrifice) and he goes before us so that we might appear blameless and without sin before the Father. He allows the Father to present with us and for his face to shine upon us.
Do not get caught in false arguments. I plead do not draw the line in the sand that keeps you from knowing God's love. The contempt, fear and hatred is not of God. The God I worship loves all his children (redeemed, yet to be redeemed and even those that never will come to him). Yes, God loves his lost children too and he so much wants you to know his love, patience, kindness, forgiveness and peace. "
God so loves the world and so much wants to be a part of our lives, he wants each of us to acknowledge him, accept him and receive the bounty he has in store for us. He wants to greet us as his children, heirs to the kingdom with all the rights and responsibilities as sons and daughters of the almighty God.
God doesn't want to persecute anyone, he only wants us to have the peace, joy and freedom from bondage - he wants to give us the gift of salvation and eternal life.
As a Christian, I am reminded that we all are sinners, we have all fallen short of his glory and we are redeemed not by our own deeds, but only by his grace and mercy.
Homosexuality is a sin - no better or worse than other sins. It takes you out of the proper relationship with God and calls for you (like any sinner involved in any sin) to repent, name/confess your sin to God, ask for his forgiveness and ask him to grant you the both the strength and wisdom not to sin again.
God loves all his children, that's why he sent Jesus into the world to save sinners.
I think individuals that are involved in the sin of homosexuality want to draw a line between Christians and homosexuals - that Christians are better than homosexuals. That's not the case - the only difference is that a Christian is in relationship with God, repents, seeks forgiveness of sin and strives not to sin again. If and when he sins again, he again seeks the Father - in whom our strength is found.
God's love is sufficient. May all sinners, myself included, feel God's love and understanding. Jesus came to the world and knows it's temptations, understands the sins of the flesh (although he remained without sin) and Jesus acts on our behalf.
Don't be fooled. God loves you and wants to forgive you. All you need to do is believe in him, confess that you have gone your own way and done your own things (sinned) and ask that the holy spirit come into your life. If you do this, you will be set free from the bondage of sin and you will receive the gift of the holy spirit and eternal life (regardless of the nature of the sin or sins committed).
Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins, your past and future. He is the propitiation of our sin (the perfect and ultimate sacrifice) and he goes before us so that we might appear blameless and without sin before the Father. He allows the Father to present with us and for his face to shine upon us.
Do not get caught in false arguments. I plead do not draw the line in the sand that keeps you from knowing God's love. The contempt, fear and hatred is not of God. The God I worship loves all his children (redeemed, yet to be redeemed and even those that never will come to him). Yes, God loves his lost children too and he so much wants you to know his love, patience, kindness, forgiveness and peace. "
Robert H wrote on Jan 1, 2009 7:34 AM:
" This is the perfect example how Christians interpret the Bible differently and live what verses they want and not others.
Remember, there's only one God, one Savior and one Word of God. Do not add to or take away from his word. "
Remember, there's only one God, one Savior and one Word of God. Do not add to or take away from his word. "
Doubt now playing in theatres wrote on Jan 1, 2009 5:25 AM:
" Yes, as the Catholic priests have paid dearly in our own lifetime for the rape of their own alter boys,
The point in most of the bible stories was to abandon beliefs like whether or not homosexuality is free will or an afflicted condition, in favor of VALUES like courage, forgiveness, tolerance, and faith.
And that perhaps if we let KARMA teach the lessons and not retaliation, then PEACE and SOLIDARITY will prevail. "
The point in most of the bible stories was to abandon beliefs like whether or not homosexuality is free will or an afflicted condition, in favor of VALUES like courage, forgiveness, tolerance, and faith.
And that perhaps if we let KARMA teach the lessons and not retaliation, then PEACE and SOLIDARITY will prevail. "
Kirk wrote on Jan 1, 2009 1:41 AM:
" Although I am certain that Lacr0ix does not need my assistance, I am afraid I could not resist.
The founding fathers of America had in mind a clear vision for separation of Church and State. I shall let them make their own case, for they knew instinctively that legislating morality, as defined by any insular group, always leads to tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson proposed this language [for the new Virginia constitution] in 1776 "All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution": freedom for religion, but also freedom from religion.
“I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.” I will never, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. (Thomas Jefferson)
“The doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience is most evidently and lamentably contrary to the doctrine of Christ Jesus the Prince of Peace.” (Roger Williams, 1603 -1683, founder of Rhode Island)
The Constitution of the United States (1787-1788; 1st Ten Amendments ["Bill of Rights"] ratified 1791; no reference to any god is to be found in the body or in the amendments to the Constitution. Do you think that was an accident, an oversight or accomplished without a great deal of discussion and finally consensus? There is the effort, implicit in the exclusion.
A prejudice, bigotry most foul, shall not pass as honorable merely because it arrives cloaked in belief. To deny others their chance at life’s rewards must surely be the greatest sin. (Kresque) "
The founding fathers of America had in mind a clear vision for separation of Church and State. I shall let them make their own case, for they knew instinctively that legislating morality, as defined by any insular group, always leads to tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson proposed this language [for the new Virginia constitution] in 1776 "All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution": freedom for religion, but also freedom from religion.
“I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.” I will never, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. (Thomas Jefferson)
“The doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience is most evidently and lamentably contrary to the doctrine of Christ Jesus the Prince of Peace.” (Roger Williams, 1603 -1683, founder of Rhode Island)
The Constitution of the United States (1787-1788; 1st Ten Amendments ["Bill of Rights"] ratified 1791; no reference to any god is to be found in the body or in the amendments to the Constitution. Do you think that was an accident, an oversight or accomplished without a great deal of discussion and finally consensus? There is the effort, implicit in the exclusion.
A prejudice, bigotry most foul, shall not pass as honorable merely because it arrives cloaked in belief. To deny others their chance at life’s rewards must surely be the greatest sin. (Kresque) "
Missy wrote on Jan 1, 2009 12:06 AM:
" As a Christian we are taught to LOVE the sinner and HATE the sin.
The word of God is what should convict a person of their sin, and my sins, not another person.
Enough said. "
The word of God is what should convict a person of their sin, and my sins, not another person.
Enough said. "
Nellie wrote on Dec 31, 2008 7:14 PM:
" Thomas- You will be blessed for standing up for what is right!
The scriptures are clear on homosexuality and time is running out for these people to repent and turn from their wicked ways. "
The scriptures are clear on homosexuality and time is running out for these people to repent and turn from their wicked ways. "
rob wrote on Dec 31, 2008 6:37 PM:
" L - what did the founders do to keep the state out of religion?
J- What else does scripture say before and after judge not?
The medical community would report that homosexuality brings early death and numerous diseases. Everything else that does this our society warns us about. Why does homosexuality get a free pass?
Who makes the rules? Are there any morals that never change? If so what are they? If there aren't why is everyone being so judgmental if all morals come down to opinion? "
J- What else does scripture say before and after judge not?
The medical community would report that homosexuality brings early death and numerous diseases. Everything else that does this our society warns us about. Why does homosexuality get a free pass?
Who makes the rules? Are there any morals that never change? If so what are they? If there aren't why is everyone being so judgmental if all morals come down to opinion? "
willy wrote on Dec 31, 2008 5:02 PM:
" yep God did give you free will and common sense and some simple rules to follow to bad everyone thinks there so hard to follow, but you all follow the law so you don't end up in jail, well its's the same thing. If you live your life like theirs no God you better be right "
Lacr0ix wrote on Dec 31, 2008 11:30 AM:
" Darn it Kirk, you already wrote the good references!
Seriously, who would Jesus attack?
Or as Carlin said, they should love Gays because the're the one class of people who are virtually guaranteed not to commit any abortions.
Or, they should love Gays because they make such a great distraction their own failure to "follow the word", to be right with God, or to simply "be kind to each other" - which is the essence of all religious teaching. For, as a great Rabbi said "the rest is commentary".
What I don't understand is the supposedly-religious persons who want the state to impose control on religious rites, rituals, and customs. Do they not understand the door they're opening? The founders worked very hard to keep that door shut... "
Seriously, who would Jesus attack?
Or as Carlin said, they should love Gays because the're the one class of people who are virtually guaranteed not to commit any abortions.
Or, they should love Gays because they make such a great distraction their own failure to "follow the word", to be right with God, or to simply "be kind to each other" - which is the essence of all religious teaching. For, as a great Rabbi said "the rest is commentary".
What I don't understand is the supposedly-religious persons who want the state to impose control on religious rites, rituals, and customs. Do they not understand the door they're opening? The founders worked very hard to keep that door shut... "
JC wrote on Dec 31, 2008 9:48 AM:
" Christians like Thomas Graham conveniently ignore some of the morally reprehensible parts of the Bible (especially in the Books of Moses), including provisions for murdering disobedient children, holding slaves, ritual animal sacrifice, and some strange dietary practices. So why do they single out homosexuality when they don't follow "God's" word even superficially?
If you actually read the Bible, it's quite obvious that its moral code is severely outdated, and anyone with an interest in intellectual honesty would declare it outright disgusting and incompatible with modern society. Stop this bigotry against homosexuals. Christians do a pathetic job of following the Bible's commandments, so quit pushing your arbitrary "morals" on the rest of us, because even by your own standards, you are immoral and spitting in the face of God. "
If you actually read the Bible, it's quite obvious that its moral code is severely outdated, and anyone with an interest in intellectual honesty would declare it outright disgusting and incompatible with modern society. Stop this bigotry against homosexuals. Christians do a pathetic job of following the Bible's commandments, so quit pushing your arbitrary "morals" on the rest of us, because even by your own standards, you are immoral and spitting in the face of God. "
Kirk O. wrote on Dec 31, 2008 8:25 AM:
" Human rights, if you believe in any kind of God at all, are given equally. If you believe in no God at all, they are just yours naturally, neither given nor there to be taken away. If I may;
An engineering professor is treating her husband, a loan officer, to dinner for finally giving in to her pleas to shave off the scraggly beard he grew on vacation.
His favorite restaurant is a casual place where they both feel comfortable in slacks and cotton/polyester-blend golf shirts. But, as always, she wears the gold and pearl pendant he gave her the day her divorce decree was final.
They’re laughing over their menus because they know he always ends up diving into a giant plate of ribs but she won’t be talked into anything more fattening than shrimp.
Quiz: How many biblical prohibitions are they violating?
• Well, wives are supposed to be ‘submissive’ to their husbands (I Peter 3:1).
• And all women are forbidden to teach men (I Timothy 2:12),
• or wear gold or pearls (I Timothy 2:9),
• or dress in clothing that ‘pertains to a man.’ (Deuteronomy 22:5).
• Shellfish and pork are definitely out (Leviticus 11:7, 10 [abomination]),
• as are usury, [loaning money at interest] (Deuteronomy 23:19 [deserving of death] ),
• shaving (Leviticus 19:27),
• and clothes of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19).
• And since the Bible rarely recognizes divorce, they’re committing adultery, which carries the rather harsh penalty of death by stoning (Deuteronomy 22:22).
So why are they having such a good time? Well, because they wouldn’t think of worrying about rules that seem absurd, anachronistic or, at best, unrealistic.
Yet this same modern-day couple could easily be among the millions of Americans who never hesitate to lean on the Bible to justify their own anti-gay attitudes.
Who are you to judge how any other person fulfills their life and seeks personal happiness? Who are you to decide when and where love should be bestowed? Who are you to assume you can speak to morality, for a god who will not even raise a finger to assist those being slaughtered in Gaza by people who believe this self-same God chooses them for some form of cosmic exemption?
I can do this all day long and I haven’t even broken a sweat. Perhaps the New Year will let us see no reason for these kinds of discussions? For this, I will pray. "
An engineering professor is treating her husband, a loan officer, to dinner for finally giving in to her pleas to shave off the scraggly beard he grew on vacation.
His favorite restaurant is a casual place where they both feel comfortable in slacks and cotton/polyester-blend golf shirts. But, as always, she wears the gold and pearl pendant he gave her the day her divorce decree was final.
They’re laughing over their menus because they know he always ends up diving into a giant plate of ribs but she won’t be talked into anything more fattening than shrimp.
Quiz: How many biblical prohibitions are they violating?
• Well, wives are supposed to be ‘submissive’ to their husbands (I Peter 3:1).
• And all women are forbidden to teach men (I Timothy 2:12),
• or wear gold or pearls (I Timothy 2:9),
• or dress in clothing that ‘pertains to a man.’ (Deuteronomy 22:5).
• Shellfish and pork are definitely out (Leviticus 11:7, 10 [abomination]),
• as are usury, [loaning money at interest] (Deuteronomy 23:19 [deserving of death] ),
• shaving (Leviticus 19:27),
• and clothes of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19).
• And since the Bible rarely recognizes divorce, they’re committing adultery, which carries the rather harsh penalty of death by stoning (Deuteronomy 22:22).
So why are they having such a good time? Well, because they wouldn’t think of worrying about rules that seem absurd, anachronistic or, at best, unrealistic.
Yet this same modern-day couple could easily be among the millions of Americans who never hesitate to lean on the Bible to justify their own anti-gay attitudes.
Who are you to judge how any other person fulfills their life and seeks personal happiness? Who are you to decide when and where love should be bestowed? Who are you to assume you can speak to morality, for a god who will not even raise a finger to assist those being slaughtered in Gaza by people who believe this self-same God chooses them for some form of cosmic exemption?
I can do this all day long and I haven’t even broken a sweat. Perhaps the New Year will let us see no reason for these kinds of discussions? For this, I will pray. "
Jim wrote on Dec 31, 2008 1:06 AM:
" Why do these Christians neglect one important thing when it comes to an issue of this stature. God gave us FREE WILL. If Christians want to preach scripture, then what about Judge not less thee be judged? Why do the Christians feel it necessary to point their fingers at others and not looking at themselves? They must think they are saints. Untill they ACTUALLY live by what the Bible says then they should stop judging others and leave people alone. A good christian these days know how to run other peoples lives better than their own "
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willy wrote on Jan 8, 2009 4:06 PM: