" vegas - Howdid everything in existence, DNA, earth, the universe, microbes, plants, animals and you, begin?

Actually, I've never tried tripe... just kidding.

Merry Christmas! "

" another piece of tripe from this guy. why does this paper continue to print these letters.if i want to know about god I'll go to church,otherwise keep your fairy tales to yourself. "

" This is why I love Klamath Falls! I suggest everyone go down to Waldo's and have a drink and cool down. "

" RH I agree with you that addidction can be thought of as a choice. In my opinion choice/behavior, genetics, chemical imbalance, and mental illnes all contribute to the problem of addiction. As I said in another post, addition is just not alcohol and drugs. Its food, relationships, sex, religion and on and on. Addiction is any behavior that has an unhealthy effect on daily life. "

" MK I am sorry you had suck a negative experience with the AA meeting. Sounds like members were not quite on the right track especially in regard to paring up and members being ridiculed. If you would like try reading the 12 steps...thats what AA meetings are about. "

" Dear RH

do you know that alcoholism is not a disease. Its by choice, like smoking and drug abuse. seems you are very misinformed. The guy is stating the beliefs of the Bible. To some it makes no sences, to others it has amessage. It depends on your walk with the lord as to how much you can interpit his word. Others have there own agenda as to there beliefs. Thats ok with the true walkers with the lord. You are to love everyone as brothers, and sisters, in his HOLY NAME AMEN. "

" Thanks, but no thanks for the invitation to an open AA meeting. Went voluntary w/friend one time. There was only one person whom took the meeting seriously. He got up in front of people and spilled his guts only to be ridiculed. It has been my experience in working with these type of people. These meetings are only for other people with the same additictions to hook up; per say or to get dirt on others. Also, been in church once when a man got up in front of everyone and stated he messed around on his wife and then everyone went and told his wife whom did not attend church that day! See want I mean. Too many people live in "glass houses". "

" I have been to festivals at Catholic churches where you load up on cheap wine and throw tennis balls into muffin cups to win 1.5 liter bottles of gin. I guess Catholics arent good Christians but they sure know how to put the "fun" in "fundraiser". "

" MK I glad you are expressing how you feel about this subject. Anthing used to excess can be considered an addiction. This can include chemical addiction, religion, sex, food (my personal favorite), coffee, sleep, internet blogs...the list can be endless! I guess the pint I am trying to make is that moderation in all of life is better (at least for me).
Some people can be social drinkers, some can't. Try going to an open AA meeting to find out more about social drinking and the funtioning drinker. Have a good day "

" Way to go, Rob! As a fellow Christian, who was once a drunkard, but repented from my sin when I began following the Lord, I appreciate your candidness. I don't believe that anything that you said would be considered judging, although by the some of the responses here, it would appear that there are some people who are feeling convicted by your words. There is no need to feel convicted! Turn away from your sin and the Kingdom of Heaven can be yours too!! "

" FYI. The dictionary's definition of "drunkard" is a person who is drunk habitually. Where do the social drinker'sfall within this criteria you know the one's whom only drink dinner wine wtih their meals? How about the professional functional drunk? You know the one who goes to work everyday after a few nips etc. And in regards to the "drunk drivers" whom violate safety. Everyday there are drunk drivers some get caught and other don't, depends on how much money you have! Sorry, I like to tell it like it is! TTFN "

" Here is an original idea...How about attending an open AA meeting? It may settle some of the problems everyone is having about Christians and addictions. You don't have to have an addiction problem to go to these meetings. I choose not to drink but I have learn a lot about myself from just listen to the AA program and the stories. Meetings are held all the time and in many different locations. Give it a try "

" MK Your comment about drinking being sociallly acceptable is true. Maybe thats why its such a difficult addiction to control. "

" Lacr0ix...I am sorry I did not make myself clear about the DSM manual. It is used by insurance companys for billing purpopes but it is also used by doctors, psychiatrists, psychologist, counselor, lawers, and other professionals. I am sorry you feel this book labels people. I feel it gives a standard definition for not only addiction dieases but for other mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder, depression, and PTSD just to name a few. Some mental illnesses are difficult to distinguish from one another and this book explains the differences. IF there is a standard definition then the treatment for the for the illness can be found and utilized in a timely manner. IF you are upset with AA liturature there is another group with different beliefs..It's called Reasonable Recovery (RR) and information about it can be found on the internet. "

" Further note, drinking alcohol is socially acceptable. Other "self choice" indulgence preferences and vices are not. Other substance and other types of abuse can also put desires ahead of teamates, coaches, family, children and jeopordize the safety of innocent bystanders. NOT, just individuals whom are considered, "drunkards" . This is a reality.

Unless individuals are self-referred to local treatment programs or court ordered the only remedy is self-healing. TX programs offer the tools but individuals will heal themselves if they really want to, possibly with the help of "God" not by treatment centers. As RH stated "alcoholism is a disease and there is no medical treatment." How can it be considered a disease if there is no medical treatment. That's a farce. Neglect will lead to other disorders eventually.

I do not personally believe "alcoholism" is a disease but a self induced behavior and habit created by one's self. Possibly, a self medication to hide underlying issues, ex: child abuse, phyiscal abuse etc and other traumatic events. A habit formed to help one's self not feel the pain they may have or are suffering.

Klamath County is a small town. If individuals are "Christians" and are going to preach to others I would hope they do not live in "glass houses". I prefer not to be preached to for any of my wrong doing's by "whollier than thou's" . I have stated before, the good church going people I know are "Hypercritical". They make fun of people whom are burdened and less fortunate and believe they are above "God". "

" MK - thanks for your comments.

Sorry that you been soured on people that called themselves christians, but are fornicating, lying, etc. The Bible says that there will be many that do that, but by their actions the betray themselves.

A Christian is someone who - realizing their sin - repent of it - change course - and go in God's direction - placing their faith in Christ's payment on the cross for them. IF they acually are a Christian than they should have definite changed behavior to show for it. They should also be continually living a more holy life.

Christians are suppsed to judge themselves daily to see if they are in the faith. Christians are also supposed to warn people of the spiritual consequences of their sin. Mankind has plenty of statistical data on the negative consequences of all the things God warns us not to do in the Bible. We are not suppose to 'judge' if we are doing the very same behavior that we are pointing out to our brother - that would be hypocritical. Christ had no good thing to say about hypocrites.

God allows humans free choice to make decisions for ourselves. He did make a perfect world to begin with, but humans messed it up and we've been dealing with it ever since. Read Genesis and the fall of mankind.

We must answer for every lie, lustful look, dishonorable thing we did to our parents, theft, and yes, drunkeness on Judgement Day in front of a Holy and Perfect God.

Search your conscience - will you be innocent or guilty?

Heaven or Hell?

Thanks "

" What does this say about the "treatment programs" in Klamath County? One facility has already been taken over by the state? What does this say about your "God" ? If there was one their wouldn't be "drunkards" in the first place? What does this say about "Christians" I personally know "Christians" whom fornicate, hate, lie, steal, commit adultry, slander and most of all gossip, etc.

They dance, drink and smoke in bars and clubs and then stand in the church on Sundays or whatever day they feel like going to church.

I though "Christians" were not suppose to judge others?

And remember, even a dressed up drunk can fall off a bar stool just as easily as a poor one! "

" I would buy the DSM-IV and AA explanations - IF the writers / organizations who publish them didn't have a pecuniary interest in pasting people with the label to justify just what you mentioned - INSURANCE MONEY.

The genetic angle may have some validity, but the idea that genetics *causes* people to choose to be drunkards puts us on the evolutionary scale of yeast - and I don't buy that.

Blaming behavior on genetics is the ultimate out, isn't it? My ancestors committed violence, so that should be my legal defense, eh?

My family is no stranger to addictive choices - and those who chose to quit started by acknowledging that the choice to imbibe is just that - a choice - same as the choice NOT to.

There's nothing superstitious, religious, spooky, mysterious, genetic, or diseased about it - just free CHOICE, which too few people exercise in a positive way in our contemporary culture of whining and excuses. "

" Ben, Ben Franklin didn't actually say that about beer. He did say "Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards; there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine; a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy.", though. "

" Lacr0ix Addiction is a genetic, chemical imbalance, and behavioral issue. As far as I know there is no bacteria or virus that causes this problem but I am aware that addiction can be related to an imbalance in brain chemisty The DSM-IV-TR manual gives a very good definition of this diease. A copy can probably be found at the library in medical section. This book is the "Bible" for insurance companys who pay for the treatment of this diease. Also try reading AA's Big Book and this can be found at the library too. I do not have the diease of alcoholism, but my family has been effected by the diease and thats what it is a genetic and chemical imbalance diease with behavioral implications. "

" Rob, I don't know who your are, but you took the words out of my mouth with each comment that you wrote.
You have not twisted scripture at all.

Also,
Wine back in the day, wasn't served at the Lords dinner table, so they could get drunk. It was a nice tasteful beverage for them to enjoy with a meal.


Before people go out and state there argumentive opinion on such a topic, I DARE YOU to open the Bible and read it!
I guarantee you, you won't have much to argue with Rob after that.

Also, the only way to understand the bible is to turn your religion into a relationship with Christ. He will help you understand his word. When I first read the bible my relationship status with Christ was not good, and all was gibberish. When I finally caved in and let him open my eyes, I understood so much more!

I DARE YOU TO TRY IT!!!! "

" RH - Sorry - it sounds like you've run into some people that say they are Christian, but the aren't. Christ dealt with them - he said they were vipers, white washed tombs. They were judged severely.

I'd still like to know where I have twisted scripture?

Content - Where does 'universal' common sense come from?
What makes my 'dogma' less equal than yours? In yours you are the 'authority' and mine is the God who created everything, knows everything and controls everything to His glory.

If bowing to Him makes me weak that seems a bit narrow... just kidding you.

Thanks "

" The story of Jesus is meant to demonstrate that it is love that overcomes fear. Love your brother, know love. That's one reporters opinion. And I love beer, which was given to my ancestors by Love to help us overcome the pain of living in this world. Or, to quote Mr. Franklin said, "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Alcoholics are still your brothers. God bless you all. "

" Well, seems that a fundamental belief in Jesus, to the point of putting him above all others, friends, family, self, is itself remenant of addictive behaviour.

If you can not stand to say what is right and what is wrong, to yourself, and others, without relying, or "depending" on using some out dated dogma to justify your position instead of using universal common sense. then not only are you an addict, but also narrow in your views.

Any system of belief that makes you act and be a better person is preferrable, Using Jesus as your crutch just makes you a weak willed human.
Be responsible for yourselves! "

" I believe that at some point the alcoholic DID make the choice to drink or not to drink to get drunk. At the point they went passed that without regard for their well-being or that of those around them, they sinned. But what about those who want to REPENT and get better? Alcoholism is a sickness. And while they may desire to stop, the addiction is more than a CHOICE, as some state. Ones that CHOOSE to try and overcome the addiction are the ones that are repentant. TO repent means to 1st realize you sin, 2nd to do something to turn around from your wrong course, and 3rd, once you are headed on the right path, to do everything you can to stay that way. It may be that some faulter again, but they are not rejected as long as they continue to strive to fix their addiction. Only the individual and GOD know what the heart condition is, If the person really is trying. All we can do as fellow human is try to be supportive of ones with this illness...yes illness. "

" To those who have said it's a choice to drink. You're half right. What about a child of the age of eight yrs. until graduation from high school that had been given alcohol by their parents? At this time the person is an alcoholic and didn't have a CHOICE.

You want to talk about CHOICES. What about the Christian who claims they are a believer of God (Jesus) then goes out and sins. That's a choice and not being a sinner but a hypocrite. Go ahead and twist Gods word, what you are saying you know better than God. Christians can justify their behavior but judges others to make themselves feel good about themselves and to ignore their problems of hypocracy.

Alcoholism is a disease and there's no medical treatment. So that person is in a fight for their life because of the chemical dependency of the brain.

As for the wine that Jesus created still impairs the mind. Keep justifying.

Remember this quote, "The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something and wishing it to be so."

Isn't Christianity based on faith and a belief? That's why they call themselves believers. Think about it. "

" Rob Crebbin is not twisting God's word people need to understand
drinking is not a sin its getting drunk and
being addicted thats a sin. When you are addicted you are putting that addiction above all else. Therefore when Jesus drank wine it was just a beverage not an additction. Be addicted to God. "

" Guilt and shame are good... they lead to repentance (turning from sin). Attempting to drown guilt in single or mutliple abuse still leaves one with the guilt.

The Bible is the standard I use to determine right and wrong. It is also written on my conscience and yours. The Bible says to judge rightly - we all judge - look at the judgemental comments made about me.

I am merely pointing to the consequences that a Holy God has in store for those that reject Him and violate His commands thousands of times. If you've ever lied, stolen, blasphemed, or committed adultery then you are guilty and must pay the penalty for your sin.

I once was a drunkard and praise be to God that He removed that 'addiction' from me when I repented and started living the way He wants me to.

Did I say I've never sinned? I merely pointed out the consequences of it. I simply had my penalty for those sins paid for by the only one who can - Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Don't take my word for it - look to the Bible and check for yourself. If I've "twisted" God's Word I'd like to know.

Thanks "

" Debbie & RH - Please enlighten us all to the name of the specific pathogen - bacteria or virus - that is the cause of addictive behavior. Uh, wait, it's BEHAVIOR - meaning CHOICE.

Medicalizing a choice is called 'inventing an excuse' - to keep doing stupid things - and to line the pockets of purveyors of a 'cure'. The only thing 'disease' has to do with it is as an EXCUSE. And, excuses are not useful in resolving problem behavior.

Sell the 'go easy on the poor, helpless drunks' program to someone who hasn't seen what 'death by drunk' looks like. Sell that 'disease' (without pathogen) excuse to someone who doesn't care about the kids who buy into these stupid excuses for idiot behavior. "

" Rob - once again, I am proud to be a former student of yours from your teacher days. It's too bad that those saying you are judging or who are accusing you of saying you don't sin don't know that we are all sinners, but the difference is recognizing sin and repenting whether it is for getting drunk or for something as simple as not spending enough time with God and having a thankful heart for his blessings. Also, the addiction to alcohol may be a disease, but I say...you should've never taken that first drink, because we all know that the possibility is there to get drunk and to end up addicted - why flirt with temptation on any level. You are a wise man and I feel honored to know that there are still people like you out there when I read all the blogs from all the people living in this world who don't seem to know any joy or peace and seem to thrive off of negativity and blame. "

" Chemical dependency is a physical and mental diease. The last thing an addicted person needs is someone judging them for their behavior. They judge themself harshly enough.
Perhaps if Rob Cebbin was a little more knowledgeable in the diease of addiction and a little less judgemental he would be more compassionant.
Perhaps his drug of choice is condemnation of others. "

" A sensible message about managing one's chemical recreation doesn't need a spooky superstitious wrapping.

And, a spooky superstitious wrapping doesn't invalidate the idea that we ought to be careful how we imbibe - so that our holidays remain free of grief. "

" I guess Rob has NEVER sinned...Interesting. "

" I guess Rob has NEVER sinned....Interesting. "

" The liberal elite always distort, take out of context,
and twist Jesus's words from Matthew 7:1: "Judge
not lest ye be not judged." These same ones will
turn around and gossip against someone they
dislike! One of the reasons I moved away from
Klamath Falls back in 1986 and relocated to
Ashland (not that Ashland is any utopia by any
means) is because of the culture of "drunkedness"
rampant in Klamath Falls and Klamath County. Rob Crebbin is being morally and intellectually
honest in this letter by "telling it like it is!" "

" I would never encourage or condone alcohol or drug use...but it's worked pretty well for me.

-Dr. Hunter S. Thompson- "

" Judge not, lest Ye be judged.

BYOB and MYOB. "

" Rob,

Do you have any idea that alcoholism is a disease like cancer, diabetes, etc. Before you judge, as you will be judged, you better check with the American Medical Association about the addiction.

Jesus even made wine from water. Just a little impares an indvidual. Therefore, that one is not in their right mind.

Christians who sin just blows it off as they believe they are sinners and all they need to do is ask for forgiveness. They don't look at themselves as hypocrites. Many Christians always justifies themselves by twisting Gods word. "